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The Mentoring Room - Ask the Working Pros

This is a Public Topic geared towards first-time filmmakers. Professional members of The D-Word will come by and answer your questions about documentary filmmaking.

Tara Hurley
Tue 1 Apr 2008Link

I do know that they don't pay for product placement because I worked at a place once that tried asked, and they said they didn't. It is also on their website. And, the product appears in my film 2 times, one time she refers to her husband when she first met him walking in with a DnD ice coffee in his hand, and the second time she talks about how she is saving money trying to get enough to open up a DnD location.


Doug Block
Tue 1 Apr 2008Link

If they sue you it could be invaluable publicity for your doc. The bigger problem might be getting E&O (Errors & Ommissions) insurance should you want a broadcast. But I think Chris is right, can't imagine it being a huge isssue. You should join up as a full D-Word member , Tara, and ask again in the Legal topic.


Sam Rabeeh
Thu 3 Apr 2008Link

Hi everyone,

I have several treatments and not sure how to proceed.

My main concern is copyright as I want to develop the ideas further. This isn't documentary related but I hope some of you will come to bat with some opinions.

Can I copyright a treatment? Do I need to develop the ideas further into a script and submit it to the Canadian Copyright office at that point?

I want to share the treatments so I can promote their development. How do I protect myself?

I have so many other questions but I'll leave it at,

Cheers,


John Burgan
Thu 3 Apr 2008Link

Yes, you can copyright a treatment, it doesn't need to be a full script.

Be aware, however, that you can't copyright an idea.
Edited Thu 3 Apr 2008 by John Burgan

Robert Goodman
Thu 3 Apr 2008Link

There is no point in copyrighting treatments. If you are writing a fiction film script and are a novice, you need a killer script sample. That means a full well-realized script. If you find people who like that they'll pay you to write treatments or to develop a two paragraph pitch into a treatment.

Ideas are a dime a dozen in Hollywood. Execution is all.


Sam Rabeeh
Thu 3 Apr 2008Link

I should further elaborate. I wish to make these films myself. As you say Robert, execution is all. Some of the ideas I'm exploring for documentaries have crossed over into dramatic as I'm curious about using the tense "is happening" rather than "has happened".

I have no illusions about the daunting tasks that lie ahead but I know with diligence and and a stepped approach I will realize these in some way. My experience over the past 25 years has shown this in everything I do so this is no time to change my thinking.

How did other filmakers discuss/collaborate their ideas and treatments in the past? I'll use the example of Lucas who only had a treatment for "The Star Wars". I stress I'm not Lucas but to bring a project to realization using a treatment only is possible. I'm not a script writer I want to make documentaries and films that hopefully communicate the ideas i envision.

John, when you say the idea can't be copyrighted, can we use an example? Is Indiana Jones, handsome archeologist professor saves the world from nazis by finding the lost ark, the idea?

So I can make a handsome, professor archeologist just as long as names, places and ark are not the same?

I apologize for the broken writing but I'm wee tired.

Cheers,


Boyd McCollum
Sat 5 Apr 2008Link

Don't forget Lucas had THX1138 and American Graffiti under his belt, so Star Wars wasn't the first thing he did. He was also one of a group of directors (including Spielberg and Coppola) that were given relative carte blanche on their projects at that time.

Yes you can make your version of Raiders if you want. Happens all the time in the low-budget world of B- and C-movies (even A-list movies). All variations on a theme.

As for collaborating and discussing – lots of these folks have friends that also make films or write, etc. I have several good friends that are also filmmakers that I've known for over 20 years. We'll chat endlessly on any number of projects we have going at various stages, from writing to post-production.

Occasionally I'll stop in a bookstore and read some books on how other writers or directors got their start. Many great books with interviews out there. Just a quick search at Amazon on "directors first films" turned up this or this .

Robert's right. Write an excellent script and it'll take you places. Keep in mind what Robert McKee says in his book STORY about Hollywood:

"With rare exceptions, unrecognized genius is a myth. First-rate screenplays are at least optioned if not made. For writers that can tell a quality story, it's a seller's market – always has been, always will be."


Sam Rabeeh
Sat 5 Apr 2008Link

Oh I haven't forgotten about THX or the situation. For example in Canada I hear a treatment is more likely. I have to re-iterate my target is not hollywood. I'm not sure why we thought that. But anyway, I bought a copy of Syd Fields books which helped out alot in answering this question.

My original question was related to how to protect a script in order to collaborate in any sized project. From a 30 seconds spot to a feature film. I have used NDA's before but I know there had to be something with more teeth.

Don't get me wrong though, it's not as though I haven't thought about writing a great script and having hollywood make it, or myself, who hasn't? :-)


Robert Goodman
Sat 5 Apr 2008Link

copyright.


Boyd McCollum
Sat 5 Apr 2008Link

We probably thought Hollywood since you used Lucas and Raiders as examples.

Copyright on a treatment can work, the value is in how detailed the treatment is. Are you talking about a treatment that's only one page long and just basically expresses your idea? Or are you talking about a 10-15 page treatment that details how the story unfolds scene by scene? The latter can work and it'd be good to copyright.

Not sure how Canadian law is for copyright, but here in the states, copyright attaches as soon as you put it on paper. You can also send it to the Library of Congress. Here's the procedure from the US Copyright office.

Probably the best protection is to deal with professionals with proven track records. Is there a well-known producer/filmmaker in your area that you can try and contact? S/he may be able to give you some suggestions for moving forward in your area and people to work with.

Overall, I wouldn't worry too much that someone will steal your idea – except maybe in commercials since they are basically ideas anyway – Ideas are actually pretty easy to come up with, it's being able to flesh them out that's hard.


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