The Mentoring Room - Ask the Working Pros

This is crazy, James. Firstly it's commonly-held assumption that a "documentary film" is synonymous with Hollywood and that the filmmaker is making a pile of money off the people who appear in it. Reality check: the vast majority of documentaries do not make a profit, barely break even if they are lucky. Secondly, unless someone is being asked to perform specially for the film, or an expert is being asked to do some particular research, it is not normal practice to pay those who appear in documentaries. There may be a very small, nominal fee paid to interviewees, but this is mostly symbolic and connected to a release form.

The way you explain your project makes it clear (a) that the dancers are going on tour at the behest of the company, not at your command (b) they are more than willing for you to document them. This is a good start. It seems that the problem lies with the local union office who are almost certainly in the grip of the Hollywood illusion cited above.

Firstly, with the performers agreement, you probably need to go over the heads of the local office and negotiate directly with ACTRA's head office. A brief google (= documentary!) on their website revealed the following clause (below) of a draft agreement with the NFB which seems the right direction for you to explore, especially as the alternative would seem to be abandoning your film entirely. Explain that you're not making a "for profit" concert film but focusing on the work with the children etc.

A2307 Waiver of Minimum fee for Documentary A Performer may voluntarily consent to waive his minimum fee for the inclusion of a performance, interview, or appearance in a Documentary Program, the subject of which is "the making of" the Production in which the Performer has been engaged.

http://www.actra.ca/main/wp-content/uploads/OA-2008-2011-National-Film-Board-Agreement.pdf

Finally, I should point out that I am NOT A LAWYER and that you should make sure you have rock solid legal advice before proceeding with your film.

Fingers crossed that it all works out – keep us posted.

Wow John! What a great find!

Thanks for digging into this a bit. I think you've definitely found something here that I can use as a jumping off point for my future negotiations. This was a wonderful post to wake up to!

Cheers,
James

Well I had a few minutes spare and felt like helping out – The D-Word can't always promise to offer this level of service, though!

For future searches, you could try this ;-)

(PS you don't need to add your name at the end of your post – it's already there at the top)

Oh John . . . That hurts!

Not only have I googled ACTRA documentary, but I've taken the current ACTRA agreement to bed with me three nights running. My hat goes off to you though for finding this gem in minutes where I failed for days.

It's true – finding things can be a real needle in a haystack sometimes.

The main thing is that this temporary setback doesn't present an insurmountable obstacle.

Now am involve in a documentary about labour.
In this documentary I want to follow the life and working state of several workers and try to explore the real condition behind them. I want to look into with camera life of the labors of different sector and level and the reason for their dissatisfaction and possible some remedy on how this could be changed.

This will be a film about their problems and finding the solution from within them.

AS always am very much confusing about its structure.I have very much confusion about editing.So, Seeking help from senior.

How far have you got with the project, Manoj? Have you shot already?

John, I have already shot it.Now am in editing stage.But am facing problem on structure.Seeking brilient idea.

It sounds like you both shot and directed it and are planning to edit it as well, which may well be part of the problem. Is that the case? How much material do you have?

Manoj, here in the U.S. we're all but required to make a fundraising sample before we begin editing our film, usually somewhere between 5 and 15 minutes. We complain like hell, but it actually forces us to think through our story and work out structural issues. And it's a great opportunity to get feedback from others.

Since you're a D-Word member, this discussion actually belongs in the Works in Progress topic (the Mentoring Room is saved for Enthusiasts who have very limited access to the topics). There you'll find many other examples of samples our members are making.

In reply to John Burgan's post on Sun 19 Sep 2010 : John yes! I directed it and plan to edit myself.I have around 150 hour footage.

As Doug suggests, let's take this discussion to the Works in Progress topic

Hello! Maybe it's a bit an offtop, but I wouldn't know where else to ask it, except Mentoring room.
I'm thinking about applying for Documentary Campus Master-school and my question is: what does "self-presentation clip" means? Does it mean a video of myself telling smth about myself, or it should be a video clip of my works, or a trailer of the film with which I'm applying? If smb knows, I would appreciate the suggestions very much. Thanks in advance, Daria Khlestkina

In reply to W. James Meagher's post on Fri 17 Sep 2010 :

James, if you need peer support, Winnipeg should be good. Documentary Organisation of Canada (DOC) is an association of Doc professionals (in the main), that also does a lot of legislation-related lobbying (read: there are lawyers involved). http://docorg.ca/ and here's the link to the Winnipeg chapter http://docorg.ca/en/chapters/winnipeg/about-winnipeg-chapter .... Someone on that list, or known to them, will know to deal with this, what releases you'll need, and similar fiddly things. Nice subject (your film), by the way.

Hi all,

I put together this short doc called "Surgeon of Hope". It's about two children who undergo pediatric heart surgery in Nicaragua.

I would love some feedback and words of wisdom if anyone has a few minutes. I realize that it's already published, out and about, but I'd like to know if something should be done differently for future films? Is there anything I should try to work on?

http://www.viewchange.org/videos/surgeons-of-hope

Hi and help please ...

I come from a still doc photo background so working with others on a film is a new experience – it does help I'm in a film grad program but still...

the film I'm working on now is literally exploding with support from the community it's involving – the formerly incarcerated – and is blowing me away with its potential. of course I'm thrilled but for whatever reason my dp is slacking off, breaking scheduled shoots, and generally mucking things up in a major way. he's also a student and I'm not really sure how to go about handling this. we had a good one-on-one the other nite and he assured me he's on board but then turned around and screwed up again the next nite.

I've just posted an ad for a new dp but am wondering if anyone has any words about this situation? I've tried to include him as much as possible in decisions and progress of what's going on – I don't think I'm being too difficult or anything like that – he seriously seems to be sabotaging himself.

comments? suggestions?

... polite but firm separation as soon as you find a reliable DP. Maybe he just needs a little more maturity, or has too much to do to meet his course obligations (?), but if the shooting involves protagonists and others, his unreliability bruises your reputation with them. We all know in the pro, freelance, competitive world, he wouldn't be given a second chance easily.

Jo-Anne – since you're the first one to reply – ok – I'm going to ask the q I didn't before – is this also happening because I'm female?

I wouldn't want to comment, I don't know the situation first-hand.

Linda, it really doesn't matter what the reason is. If he's not doing the job, find someone who will. There are many good, young, hungry DP's out there. Not to mention, highly professional and experienced ones.

ahh Doug – I understand what you mean but every time I post on craig's the posts are flagged and removed since I can't pay anything but a credit and a dvd.

we had another long talk last nite. he's definitely overwhelmed w/the subject matter. it's very intense for both of us; he's from S. Africa and old enough to remember apartheid. I can't imagine what's going on in his mind right now.

I'm kinda stumped I think at the responses here. Yes, I understand he's not doing his job but at the same time, this is a creative industry and especially in social justice documentary, I would think people would be offering a bit more insight into how to practice what we preach. altho I have to say, I've met some documentary filmmakers who seemed more ready to jump on the social justice bandwagon for the status symbolism than they are ready to put it into actual practice.

Jo-Anne – your 2nd comment is exactly what I'm referring to.

I'm here in this industry because I want to make a difference – if I can't put this into practice myself then what's the point?

and before anyone accuses me of anything, I'm only being honest and trying to open up a frank discussion in the mentoring room because I was hoping others would help me become the kind of director that shows the same compassion to my crew as I do to the participants/subjects in one of my films.

I'm not suggesting you be an asshole about it, Linda. There are ways of letting someone go that are honest and humane, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you drop them from your life.

But what can I say, if mentoring or providing opportunities for your DP is more important to you than making the best film you possibly can than go for it. If making a difference is what you're after, I'd argue you'd be making a bigger difference to society by making a great film. And if your DP is more of a hindrance than a help in accomplishing that, I'd do what needs to be done. Again, it can be done compassionately.

It looks as if my previous comment was removed. Was it? It was in no way meant to be insensitive. As JoAnne says – without knowing the exact situation – it's difficult to provide specific suggestions other than practical advise about what one would do in such a general hypothetical situation. As a female director myself – I've concluded that it's a waste of time to speculate about whether one's gender commands more or less respect among crew members. I do believe however that it is a reasonable question to ask when dealing with documentary subjects.

I think sometimes being a director means behaving in ways that might feel contrary to one's nature. If you're generally a friendly laid back sensitive person who likes to avoid confrontation , it's sometimes a difficult thing to muster up the courage to tell someone firmly that things are not working out. But you have to do for the sake of your film – and that is really the only reason.

Hi Laura – donno about your other post – maybe the server had a burp or something?

Doug – I hear you, just wanted to make it clear I didn't want to be too hardnosed and insensitive to other people's issues.

anyway – everything's moot now – my dp is now my former dp – he totally choked, flaked out, flew the coop, whatever you want to call it.

I think most of all I just wanted reassure myself I did my best. This has definitely been a learning experience. I've supervised people before, heck, I'm a teacher (tho just subbing presently) and just didn't want this to be business as usual.

I know now it wasn't, that it was him, for whatever reason, he couldn't cut it.

The only problem now is that it's the middle of the semester and everyone is working on someone's film or their own so I might be really screwed with this project. I have reached out so hopefully will be able to continue but am making a plan B just in case.

sigh, live and learn, huh?

yup.

and laura, your post wasn't removed, at least as far as i know. what was so horrible that you wrote?